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Spanier’s Grand Jury Transcript Read Into Evidence

Graham Spanier’s 2011 testimony to the Grand Jury was read into evidence this morning as the preliminary hearing for the embattled former president, Tim Curley, and Gary Schultz winds down in Harrisburg. One more witness is expected after an hour recess before going into closing arguments.

Notably, Spanier’s transcript includes at least two distinct references to Cynthia Baldwin. The former university counsel sat in when the Grand Jury interviewed Spanier and the other two administrators. All three men claim that they were under the impression that Baldwin was legally representing them, but Baldwin has maintained that she was there only in the interests of Penn State, not the individual people. Some have accused her of violating attorney-client privilege for the ambiguity.

Despite Baldwin’s claims, it’s clear Spanier was under the impression she was his attorney at the time of the Grand Jury interview.

“Are you represented by counsel today,” Spanier was asked.

“Yes, Cynthia Baldwin, right behind me,” Spanier responded.

There was no objection noted by Baldwin from that response.

Baldwin is also mentioned later on in the transcript. The interviewer asks Spanier a question about the State College Police Department, when in fact he meant the Penn State Police Department. The transcript notes Baldwin advising Spanier to make the distinction between the separate entities.

Spanier’s testimony went on to describe his knowledge of the 1998 and 2001 Sandusky incidents.

“There was never a time when the university police approached me with anything do with Jerry Sandusky,” Spanier’s transcript stated.

Spanier told the Grand Jury he had a 15-20 minute meeting in 2001 with Curley and Schultz on how to deal with Mike McQueary’s shower allegations. Spanier testified that he didn’t know the witness was McQueary at the time.

“They said that individual thought he saw (Sandusky and a boy) horsing around in the shower and he was a little bit uncomfortable with it so he brought it to Mr. Curley’s attention,” Spanier’s testimony reads. When asked, “Is there any indication that the horse play could have been sexual nature?” Spanier simply replied, “No.”

Spanier told the Grand Jury that it wasn’t out of the ordinary for non-university employees and members of the community to use campus locker rooms and shower facilities.

“At Penn State, we’re very open in allowing members of the university to use the facilities. We feel that’s a community service. There wasn’t a policy against it,” Spanier’s testimony read. “Virtually all of our showers across the university are what are called gang showers. They’re not private showers. It’s just one big open shower. There could be one person in there or ten people in their at any time…they’re quasi-public buildings. Historically, they were paid for using Commonwealth money.”

Spanier says the first time he heard about the Sandusky allegations was from a Harrisburg Patriot-News reporter in September 2010.

We’ll continue to update after lunch.

About the Author

Kevin Horne

Kevin Horne was the editor of Onward State from 2012-2014 and currently holds the position of Managing Editor Emeritus, which is a fake title he made up. He graduated from Penn State with degrees journalism and political science in 2014 and is currently seeking his J.D. at the Penn State Dickinson School of Law. A third generation Penn Stater from Williamsport, Pa., Kevin is also the president of the graduate student government. Email: [email protected]


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